Keynote speaker & marketing VP Logan Mallory joins host Christian Pearson in a riveting conversation about what being generous looks like at the corporate level. Logan shares several illustrative stories about his personal journey in the business world and the innate potential for good within each person. Then, in the spirit of Christmas, they discuss how giving and making sacrifices empowers and lifts businesses, shareholders, and stakeholders alike.

Inside the Cambodia Project Episode 6 Podcast Transcript: Corporate Generosity

with Logan Mallory

[00:00:00.410] – Christian Pearson
Hello, I’m Christian, and you’re listening to inside the Cambodia Project, an educational podcast where we discuss cutting edge research on sustainable business in an emerging market. In our last episode, I talked with Seth Allred, a collaborator of mine, on the Cambodia project. He shared his thoughts and insight as to why the hashtag too movement didn’t gain quite as much traction in some regions across Asia, especially compared with western cultures. And we had a great discussion on how to use small businesses to overcome several obstacles to gender equality. One of the key topics I addressed with Seth was respect. Since building respect for women is one of the paramount features of our Cambodia project, I’m also a huge proponent for respect of all people, of all races, ethnicities, genders, religions, and so forth. That’s one reason why my producer Ben Beck and I wanted to bring our next guest onto the show. Today’s guest has made some very large strides in the world of business. He has risen in the ranks of marketing and business strategy, starting as an advertising sales manager and working his way into a leadership role as the vice president of marketing for motivosity.

[00:01:24.740] – Christian Pearson
Because of his notable industry experience, he is a highly sought after public speaker and has given keynote addresses across the nation. He has also taught marketing strategy here at Brigham Young University. Despite all the successes he has enjoyed in industry, he is recognized as a thought leader in speaking about how business professionals can be a force for good. That’s why we’ve asked Logan Mallory to join us on the podcast today. Thanks so much for being here, Logan.

[00:01:53.710] – Logan Mallory
I am really glad to be here. Thanks for letting me be involved.

[00:01:58.790] – Christian Pearson
My pleasure. So Logan, I like to share a quote to start each of the podcast discussions, and today, in the spirit of Christmas, the quote will be a little bit different. It comes from the late religious leader and prophet Gordon B. Hinckley. He says, Christmas means giving. The father gave his son and the son gave his life. Without giving, there is no true Christmas, and without sacrifice, there is no true worship. Now, I love this quote, but I want to hear what you think about. So, like, within the context of corporate social impact, doing good. What does this quote mean to you, Logan?

[00:02:40.130] – Logan Mallory
Yeah, well, first of all, President Hinckley was the prophet of my youth. And so though I love all the prophets, that individual prophet means a lot to me and I feel like I grew up learning from him. And so anything president Hinckley said, I feel like I like within the context, know society and work and what that looks like. I think that it’s a really interesting quote because what it doesn’t say, is this person gave all of their money or all of their time or all of their bandwidth? It says people gave. Right. And I think that give in different ways in different points in your life, and sometimes that might be monetary, and sometimes the way that you give might be in the energy that you give to your kids or those around you. It might be the way that you give training and mentoring to your team members at work. And so I appreciate that that’s open minded to how we can give. And hopefully at Christmas time, we’re emphasizing that in a different way and giving with our savior in mind. So great quote. Great thought there for sure.

[00:03:53.530] – Christian Pearson
I really like that you differentiated between this idea of giving everything, which is really hard to do feasibly, but just giving, it’s more of an attitude, I think. Right. We talk about the spirit of Christmas. Right. The spirit of giving, of generosity. So I really like that you made that point and kind of going along with that, how would you say that businesses can embrace that spirit of giving being altruistic, even when they don’t maybe have a lot to give? What if they’re a new business and they don’t have a lot of resources? What would you say to small businesses like that? How could they give?

[00:04:34.710] – Logan Mallory
Yeah. One thing that doesn’t necessarily cost any money is giving your people a happy place to work. Right. Like, you can just give them a place where they look forward to coming or being. There’s some research that’s been done by the US surgeon general, and he’s talking about an epidemic of loneliness and how lonely people are. And workplaces can give their team members a place to enjoy who they work with. Right. And so I think you can be altruistic in lots of ways. And part of that is just recognizing the responsibility that comes with having that much dedication and that much time from your employees. And if you’re intentional about how you treat them during those hours, then you’re giving them the best you can give them. So that’s one of my thoughts. But again, I think that businesses, when businesses prioritize taking care of their people, and they cannot always do that in the way their people want. Right. Like, you can’t meet the needs of every single employee and always run a successful business. And so sometimes there are trade offs. But as often as possible, if you can do the right thing and help your people be successful at work, that’s a good thing to give them.

[00:05:56.290] – Christian Pearson
I love that. Yeah. It makes me think of, I took a psychology class and we talked about the hierarchy of human needs, and at the very top is actually the need to belong. Yeah. That’s a gift worth giving. And you’re right, it doesn’t really cost anything as far as if we’re talking about revenue or actual capital. Really, all it costs is social capital, right. Where just businesses can give their employees, their people, a place to belong, to feel like they have a part to play and that they’re valued. So I love what you said about that, and I think it’s true sometimes. I don’t have tons of experience in the business world yet, but I do know that there’s always, like, a line you have to draw on the sand as far as how generous can you really be and still be profitable. Right. But I love that.

[00:06:53.890] – Logan Mallory
To meet the demand. Not the demands, the needs of so many people. And the bigger you get, the harder it gets. But that doesn’t mean you can’t try for sure.

[00:07:02.620] – Christian Pearson
Yeah. And again, I think that your intention is probably. It precedes the execution. Right. So having an intention or a spirit of giving, of Christmas is just a great way to run a business. I can’t wait to hear more about how I guess you’ve done that. But before we talk more about business as a force for good, I want to ask you a few questions about what gets you excited. So what inspired you, Logan, to get into a business career instead of something more service oriented, since, like, public service or nonprofit work? I know those know passion products of yours, but why did you choose the.

[00:07:42.950] – Logan Mallory
Business career know growing thought? I thought I would make a great president of the United States. And where I really thought, maybe that’s what I’ll try to pursue. And then there was another part of me that loves teaching. And if I could do anything, maybe not anymore. The world has changed. But when I was choosing my career, being an 11th grade teacher would have been awesome, like, inspiring those students and being involved at that level. And maybe, Christian, this is the wrong thing to say, but I wanted to be able to provide for my family in a way that that wouldn’t necessarily allow. And then I got smarter and realized being a politician would be a nightmare. And so I went into business, into this side of business, because it was something that I felt like I had strengths in. I felt like I could provide for my family in a meaningful way. And then I also refused to trick myself and assume that just because I have a job in a professional business setting, that that means I can’t do things in other ways. So, for example, I mentioned I always wanted to teach, and so I get to do that in different ways.

[00:09:02.190] – Logan Mallory
I speak a good amount, which is a form of teaching. I do a lot of training at work. I taught classes as an adjunct professor at BYU. And so though I’m not getting it in the public school with 11th or twelveth graders, I’m getting that in different ways. And I’ve been able to enjoy that part of my life in the off hours a little bit. And so I get some of both, and I’m grateful for that.

[00:09:31.210] – Christian Pearson
That’s really cool. I aspire to have that kind of varied experience that you’re enjoying in the business world. I think that what you said probably resonates with a lot of people listening. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to be able to provide for your family and. And to do so comfortably, and that definitely makes career finding a little more challenging, but I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that. And it’s really cool how you’ve been able to balance, I guess, that work, the business aspect, but also that teaching aspect that you always craved. No matter where you end up working, whether it’s in the service sector or in business or somewhere else in education, on the podcast, we always end each episode with this phrase, lift where you stand. And I feel like it has a lot to do with doing your best no matter where you are. But what have you done in your business journey to, I guess, lift where you stand. Because right now, man, you’re pretty impressive. But I’m sure you haven’t always been the vice president of marketing. So what have you done along the way?

[00:10:56.470] – Logan Mallory
I don’t know. I might have been more impressive earlier in my career than I am now. Who knows? Listen, this question makes me a little uncomfortable because it feels a little braggy and self centered. But you asked it. And so one of the things I think I do, where I try to lift where I stand is with the energy that I choose to bring to my team. I have this goal, and I don’t write it down or anything, but I hope that anytime I leave a company, whether I’m moving on to something else or it’s a reduction in force, whatever it is, I hope that when I leave, everyone’s like, oh, this place is a little bit more boring without Logan. Right. I hope people notice the energy is lower, and it’s not that I want to punish them, but it’s that. That’s what I bring. That’s one of the ways that I lift, is that I decide to come to work with a lot of energy and excitement. And sometimes that means being goofy at work. Sometimes that means a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about a movie, and I thought, let’s watch that movie for lunch.

[00:12:04.530] – Logan Mallory
And so we put the movie on, on a big screen tv, and 15 or so people pulled up their laptops and we worked while we watched a movie. Other times, that means carrying things if you’re having a tough month or a tough quarter. It means being steady and positive, even though things are hard. And full disclosure, I don’t always get that right. I have bad days, I have frustrations. I have a personal life that sometimes comes into work and a work life that sometimes bleeds into my personal life. And so I don’t want to act like I have that figured out. But one of the ways I make people better is by being energetic and being this source of enthusiasm at work.

[00:12:46.870] – Christian Pearson
I love that. While you were talking, it was making me think of a quote I just saw in my marketing class recently. Where? In Egypt. In egyptian theology, the two measures of how you spent your life is one, they ask you two questions in their religion. At the end of your life, you’re asked, did you experience joy in your own life? And because of the way you lived, did other people experience joy because of you? So I feel like that’s kind of what you were getting at. Right? It’s what we bring to the table at the end of the day and how that influences the people around us. That’s what really matters. And I love that that’s your focus when we’re talking about lifting. Where you stand is lifting others where you stand. Right. Lifting others up around you. That’s really awesome, Logan. Yeah. Thanks for bragging a little bit. Bearing with us on the podcast, I guess maybe moving away from just you, could you share just maybe an example, an experience, or even just an individual that along your journey in the business world has impacted you in a meaningful way? Someone that I guess has lifted where they stood or someone that’s really shaped the way you see business and generosity.

[00:14:20.770] – Logan Mallory
Yeah, maybe I can go back to pre business. Logan and I grew up in Michigan and went to high school there. And it was a big high school. It was like 2400 students or so. And one year, I think it was my sophomore year, they did an assembly, and it was an all school assembly. And so they broke the entire school into little groups, and they had students from each grade in these groups. And it was kind of like you had your classroom for the day, but the class was made up of people. You didn’t know from all grades and all over. And I was assigned to be a student leader over one of those groups. And I was assigned to the classroom of Mike Messmore. And Mike was a teacher that I had never met. I had never had him. And we spent this whole day running, running this assembly together for this group. And then the next day, I can’t remember if he ran into me in the hall or put it in my locker or something, but he just gave me a little note. And that note said, hey, Logan, you were great.

[00:15:27.270] – Logan Mallory
Thanks for helping lead the class. And probably two, three sentences. And I think he might have put a gift card in it. And then from that day on, probably once every three or four weeks, I would just drop by Mike Messmore’s classroom sometime throughout the day and say hey to him. And then after a while, he was like, hey, Logan, I’m playing racquetball. And I kind of laughed. This was probably more acceptable 20 years ago than it would be today, but he’s like, Logan, I play racquetball. You want to go play racquetball with me? And so then I’d start meeting Mike Messmore to play racquetball. And then I graduated high school, and every, I don’t know, five, six months, I’d get an email from Mike, and it’d tell me what was going on in his life and give me some advice. And I look back on that, and I just think, my goodness, he was never even my teacher. We had a six hour interaction together, and then he took the opportunity to use that to mentor me and to teach me and to guide me for the next, what, 20 something years. And I have always been so grateful for Mike’s example about what it can mean to just find someone and to kind of adopt them in a way and take care of somebody.

[00:16:48.130] – Logan Mallory
I didn’t ask for it. He just did it. And that relationship has always meant a lot to me. And I think that where I would take that is, I’ve been really fortunate in most of my professional career to have primarily men because I’m a guy. Primarily men and good men who have mentored me and just taken me under their wing and made me better. I’ve got countless examples of, I’m grateful. I’m grateful because my career is better, because people have taken an interest in me and invested some of their time in me.

[00:17:25.870] – Christian Pearson
That’s really cool. Thanks for sharing that about Mike. Sounds like a great guy. Are you still in contact with.

[00:17:31.970] – Logan Mallory
Know, it’s a sad story. Mike got cancer and a couple years ago, I guess I sat down to write him an email and I wrote out an email and sent it. And then I got on Facebook, and I wasn’t on Facebook very much, but I just randomly got know within an hour of sending that email and saw Mike’s obituary. So I never got to say thing. One thing that was really interesting is as I was reading the comments in his obituary, I learned, and I think I kind of had an idea. But it ends up I wasn’t the only dude Mike played racquetball with. There were dozens, if not hundreds of other guys that said, mike Messmore invited me to play racquetball and he mentored me. And my life’s better because of Mike. And so even though I wasn’t the only one, I always felt like the only one. That’s pretty incredible.

[00:18:29.350] – Christian Pearson
What a guy. I think we could all use a mic in our lives. Thanks so much for sharing that, Logan. That’s really cool. Really personal, I guess. One more question for you personally before we move back to talking about business for so recently, I was looking at some of your posts on LinkedIn. You do post quite frequently, and I enjoy some of your posts. They’re pretty funny. I saw one that was pretty funny, but it also taught a good lesson. It was about when you and your wife went to a concert, I believe. Do you know the one I’m talking?

[00:19:08.110] – Logan Mallory
Couldn’t. I couldn’t forget that one.

[00:19:12.910] – Christian Pearson
Could you tell us all about it? Just for those who haven’t seen that post?

[00:19:16.950] – Logan Mallory
Yeah. So my wife and I were really big fans that there’s an artist called Morgan Wallen, I think, besides Taylor Swift, one of the bigger things in music right now and breaking all the country records. And we were kind of early adopters on Wallen, too. And so we’re just obsessed with him. And we bought concert tickets. He came to Utah to play. Would have been about a year and a half ago. And we had some nice seats. We spent a little bit of money. We had some nice seats and we got there. And the opening artist, his name is Hardy, and he’s a country musician as well, but a little harder rock. And we sat down in our seats and immediately my head got knocked by these two dudes behind us. They were jumping, they were yelling. They were like, out of control. And I was really mad. I was like, I paid all this money and I’m going to have to be with these two yehoos for the rest of the night. I felt defensive of my wife, like I wanted her to be safe. And at one point, Emily and I went to take a selfie, and one of the dudes got in our selfie and made a crazy face and put his fingers up, and he did it.

[00:20:34.010] – Logan Mallory
And I took the picture, and he kind of, like, went to get out of the picture, like he was joking, kind of. And I was like. I turned around. No, no. I was like, you get back in this selfie. And so then we took a selfie with these two guys, and I had totally just pre and misjudged them. They were the nicest dudes, and they were young. Like, they were in their. Emily and I are almost 40, but we talked to them all night in between sets. They asked us about our marriage and what was making it great and what made it hard. We laughed. They taught us new songs. We were high fiving all night. At the end of the night, we took pictures together, and we still have those dudes numbers, and every once in a while, we’ll text them. In fact, Emily and I were supposed to go to a concert, and we had two extra tickets, and we were like, should we text our Morgan Wallen friends? They were great guys, and I had just made some. I I. We all do that, but I did that. And it was a real nice reminder that people aren’t what you always think they are.

[00:21:42.720] – Logan Mallory
They’re not what you think they are right off the bat. And there’s a lot of good out there.

[00:21:48.050] – Christian Pearson
Yeah. If I had to say, I feel like there’s already kind of a theme for our discussion, and that’s that the people in our lives have so much potential for good if we just have to find it, just have to recognize it. But that’s really funny. It’s cool that you’re still friends with these guys. I love Morgan Wallen, too, actually. Jealous you guys go to that concert. That’s awesome. So, thinking more specifically about this question that we have in the Cambodia project a lot, which is, how can business give back to society? Right? There’s this relationship between businesses and consumers or businesses and other businesses. But we believe that we can take that a step further and really make sustainable differences and make meaningful change, starting at the businesses that make up the society. So I wanted to ask you, how do you think businesses should balance, I guess, financial goals with social goals? That’s the first question. How do you reach your goals as far as finances go and profitability and all of those things, while still making an impact in the community? We talked about within the organization. What about in the society in general?

[00:23:20.060] – Logan Mallory
I might have a not popular answer to this. I don’t know. So here’s my thought. I’ve worked for companies on both sides of the pendulum. I’ve worked for organizations that never mentioned causes or social taking care of people socially. And I’ve worked for companies that focused on it so much that it felt like we did that more than actually work, and it hurt our performance and cost shareholders, stakeholders, and employees money. So what I would say is, you used a keyword in there, and that keyword was at the local level, right, at the community level. And so one of the things that I think organizations can do is, sure, there are ways to give back financially, but how are you empowering your individual people to give back? Right. How are you giving them either permission or resources to do that? And so maybe that’s something like team service day, right? Or maybe it’s paying attention to what’s already going on in the community and adding your voice or your resources to that. Or maybe it’s as simple as when my people have an opportunity to serve, I want them to take it. So, for example, at motivosity, we have three core values.

[00:24:38.310] – Logan Mallory
They are love what you do, stay young and serve, always, right? And so, to be honest, if someone called me, and I don’t always do this, but if someone called me and said, logan, we need you to go serve here, and maybe that’s at church and that’s moving someone, or, Logan, we need, you know, go volunteer at this project, I wouldn’t even have to ask my boss if that was okay. We have made serve always one of our core values, and so I know it’s okay. Right. And I think that’s a really great way to encourage your people to contribute to the causes around them. You make it a core value. And then rather than a once a year service day, it’s just natural and organic for people to say, I need to go help this person, and I’m going to go do that. This was last year, so maybe it’s outdated. There’s a group called tacos together that’s run by Paul Shin in Utah here. And Paul is basically creating a community, a professional community where people can network. But he also does a lot of really great charitable giving. Just this year, they did.

[00:25:53.970] – Logan Mallory
I don’t even know the end result, but they raised money and toys for thousands of families. But last year, Paul walked into our office and said, hey, Logan, I’m trying to donate to kids and give them things for Christmas. Would motivosity be willing to contribute? And I didn’t even have to look around or ask permission. But we have these really cool stuffed yetis. A yeti is our mascot. These little stuffed animals. I didn’t have to ask permission. I walked into the room where we had the boxes and we gave him 300 or 400 yetis to give to these kids. And I could do that because it’s a core value of ours. If someone came back and said, logan, you just cost us $1,500, why did you do that? I’d say, well, serve always is one of our values. And our CEO, Scott Johnson, I’m really proud to repeat this quote of his. He says, your values should cost you something, right? If what you value doesn’t come with a cost or an expense or a sacrifice, then how do you know you really value it? And so maybe that’s a question that businesses can ask.

[00:27:02.180] – Logan Mallory
I monologued for a long time there. Christian, you better take the mic back.

[00:27:05.610] – Christian Pearson
No, thank you for monolog. That was great. That quote, your value should cost you something. It makes me think of going back to the first quote we discussed today. Gordon Hinckley talked about how without sacrifice, he says there’s no true worship. And I think it’s the same idea, right? Like if it’s that important to you, it should cost you something. That’s how you show how important it is, right? What are you willing to sacrifice for what you believe in? So that’s just so cool. And I think that’s angle that we haven’t fully explored in the Cambodia project is how can even the values that are embraced or represented by these small businesses, how can those influence, I guess, the employees, but also the stakeholders and the shareholders for good? It’s something that we should definitely think about talking about stakeholders and shareholders. Real quick, could you just explain the difference between those? I’m not even super confident on a definition, but I know those are really important to know when we’re talking about affecting the local community. So what are shareholders stakeholders and how do you give back to them as a business?

[00:28:30.210] – Logan Mallory
Yeah, I think shareholders comes with a financial or economic illusion. Right. Shareholder kind of points to the idea that it is someone who owns a part of the business or is financially impacted by the business. So think of a board. If you were a publicly traded company, you’re literally the people that own shares of your organization, your executives, your people could be considered shareholders. And so again, I think if you think, do they win or lose? If this company wins and loses financially, that probably points you towards the definition of a shareholder.

[00:29:12.120] – Christian Pearson

[00:29:12.770] – Logan Mallory
Holder can be a broader definition. So, like, my wife could be considered a stakeholder in motivosity because her livelihood is impacted by this place. Her ability to engage with her husband in a healthy way after work hours is impacted by this place. Our customers are stakeholders. If we screw up, it impacts them. Our community is stakeholders. We’re contributing, we’re giving away yetis. And so that creates a stakeholder. Right. So I think shareholders is probably closer to who is financially, directly financially impacted. Stakeholders are kind of that next sphere out and it’s more talking about a sphere of influence.

[00:30:02.770] – Christian Pearson
Okay. So if we’re trying to make a difference in the community using small businesses, let’s say in Cambodia, for example, then we should be focusing on not only the shareholders, the employees, the business owners, but also those stakeholders, right. The people that are affected in maybe less obvious ways by the values that those businesses are promoting and I guess their behavior in the community as a whole. Am I understanding that? Yeah.

[00:30:36.300] – Logan Mallory
Like, this might not be a good example for Cambodia. So excuse me, Christian, but if my building’s in disrepair and falling apart and an eyesore, am I taking care of the stakeholders in the community? Right. If I have a beautiful building that looks good and people can be proud of and they pass by and think, wow, this is a great community, am I building up the stakeholders there? And those are different answers. Right. So that’s kind of a goofy example, but I think that it starts to paint a picture.

[00:31:08.960] – Christian Pearson
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. That’s really interesting and insightful, especially for me, since I’m learning all this for the first time.

[00:31:18.490] – Logan Mallory
Marketing strategy 101 for you.

[00:31:20.910] – Christian Pearson
There we go. I’m going to pass my final now. One more question about just businesses. Since you’re at Motivossi, you’re pretty engaged. I would say you’re definitely in the business world. You’re seeing the trends. You’ve got your feet on the ground, you’re getting your hands dirty. What are some trends that you see for doing good in the business setting? So maybe in the next couple of years, what are some trends? Some things that we’ll probably start seeing businesses do more and more of to do good.

[00:31:58.630] – Logan Mallory
That’s a fascinating question. Let’s see, what’s a smart, intelligent answer on that one? I hope that organizations do start to pay attention more to their people. Right. I think one element of that is mental health and people’s emotional well being. I don’t think that that is work’s responsibility. Like, I don’t think work can fix my anxiety and depression, but I think work should support me in trying to solve that. So that could be the health benefits they give me. That could be the flexibility they give me to go see a doctor. That could be, when I say I’m having a hard time, I need a morning off, but that’s not a big deal. Our mental health as a society is a train wreck. We’re all kind of disasters. And again, I don’t think work can fix that. I think they can support in fixing that. So that’s one thing. It’s going to be really tough economic times for a while here, and I don’t know how much longer, but there’s a lot of layoffs right now across the country, and people have been out of work for a lot longer. And so then the question will be, how can businesses care for those people?

[00:33:23.410] – Logan Mallory
How can they contribute to the institutions or the organizations that already exist and give them the resources to care for the people that no longer have work? I hope that’s part of it. Because though recessions and tough times are cyclical, it’s a tough time right now and a lot of people in the workforce, unless you were around in 2008 or 2000 and certainly a couple of cycles before that, this might be your first rodeo with tough times, and I don’t think we’re done with it yet.

[00:34:00.430] – Christian Pearson
Right. Well, I also hope that businesses will take those into consideration. I think it’s really interesting what you’re talking about with mental health support. And I agree that there are some things that businesses just can’t do for their employees. But they can support the employees so that they can do those things for themselves, right? They can support them in taking action and improving their own lives. I think that’s really powerful to recognize that. Well, this has been super great. Logan, thanks so much again for coming on the podcast, for sharing some of your time. I’m sure is very precious. And thanks for sharing some of that with us. Right. Before we finish, I have one last question for you. Bringing it back to the Christmas season and to Jesus, what would you say to aspiring leaders like myself in business and in other fields who want to know what Christ like leadership looks like in the modern world, in the world we’re talking about, I’m not saying that you’re perfect at it or that anyone is, but if you had just a little bit of advice to leave us with, what would you tell people wanting to know how they can lead like Jesus did.

[00:35:25.380] – Logan Mallory
I read this really interesting non spiritual quote the other day, and it said some leaders need to reconsider the balance between connection and correction. And at the time, I didn’t think of that as a spiritual thought, but I think that that’s a great lens to try to be a christlike leader through. Are you correcting or are you connecting more? And if you’re correcting more often, shifting that, how do you connect? How do you build the relationship? How do you care? How do you ask questions about what’s happening outside of work? If you can prioritize that connection, that’s not too different than Jesus spending the day taking care of those who were sick or working and traveling all day and then taking time to connect with the little children or stopping when he was busy trying to go heal somebody else, to connect with the woman that had the issue of blood. When we connect, we’re making ourselves more effective leaders, but we’re also following Jesus’s example. And this isn’t a faceless God that we worship. This is a savior that sits and talks and ponders and loves and laughs. And this is a God with connection at the center of who he is.

[00:37:01.420] – Logan Mallory
And so that would be my thought. As we think about Christmas, as we think about leadership, as we think about Christ, how can you connect more deeply with those around you?

[00:37:14.490] – Christian Pearson
Thanks so much, Logan. That’s quite profound. And I’m going to consider that in my own life this Christmas season. Thanks one more time for coming on the podcast with us and for those listening. We wish you merry Christmas, and we hope that you find a way to connect with the people around you this Christmas season. And as always, remember to lift where you stand.